Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

I just re-read my contract ... y'all are making me nervous!!

The linens and chair covers are included. Along with an ice carving and dessert trays.

I keep thinking I didn't ask for extras I SHOULD have asked for and now I'll never get them. I tried to get a comp room but I couldn't because of my wedding date.

Oh well... I'm still very very pleased with my choice and when it comes time for the other extras I'll see what's in the budget.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by windyBride33

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Posted by BklynBride2Be

ok so I asked about the new chairs for the Garden Terrace today and we were told yes they have ordered new chairs similar to the chairs in the winter garden HOWEVER they cant guarantee when they are coming in. so in other words it could be tomorrow or upwards of a year.

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How do they not know...? that's odd... which reminds me... we have the chair covers, and I know they don't come with sashes... IF I wanted the chair sashes where could I order them from?

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by CC11208

I have a few questions regarding DIY CPs.....

I met with Dave today (Ron has since retired). I wanted to double check some things, and ask some further questions. I was told that they usually don't set up DIY CPs unless you use their house florist, and if they do set it up, they may charge me extra. Needless to say, Ron never mentioned that, and from what I've read on this thread, lots of Fox Hollow brides have DIY CPs and said that they boxed everything up, and Fox Hollow took care of it. I remember someone (davenjess?) saying that you should plan to spend a lot of time there, because they take extra care labeling everything you bring in.

One of my CPs will contain: a mirror base, an iron pillar candlestick, a pillar candle, 6 votives around, 3 photo frames around, and rose petals (which the florist said they will spread for me). I plan to set up one CP, take a picture, and put this in each box with all the CP supplies for each table, so they have a very clear idea of what to do. On average, I doubt it'd take more than a few minutes to set up each CP.

I'd really appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks!

On the up side, I asked about the size of the room so I can get started with my DIY aisle runner, and when I asked about what they use to prevent slipping, Dave said he'd give me the aisle runner to take with me! So now I have to return the other one to AC Moore, and knowing the dimensions, I can finally get started on that!

Another lesson learned: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. Whether or not the vendor wants to just agree verbally, have them write it in the contract. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that in the beginning. Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by windyBride33

I just re-read my contract ... y'all are making me nervous!!

The linens and chair covers are included. Along with an ice carving and dessert trays.

I keep thinking I didn't ask for extras I SHOULD have asked for and now I'll never get them. I tried to get a comp room but I couldn't because of my wedding date.

Oh well... I'm still very very pleased with my choice and when it comes time for the other extras I'll see what's in the budget.

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by eternitybride


Oh wow, now I feel jipped lol. We only got the table linens included when we booked, dont think anything was said about ice carvings it will still be a blast though

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Message edited 7/9/2008 3:18:36 PM.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

I didn't get the chair covers included I wish I had opened my mouth sooner . Hopefully the new chairs will be in by then!

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by GinaZ

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Posted by CC11208

I have a few questions regarding DIY CPs.....

I met with Dave today (Ron has since retired). I wanted to double check some things, and ask some further questions. I was told that they usually don't set up DIY CPs unless you use their house florist, and if they do set it up, they may charge me extra. Needless to say, Ron never mentioned that, and from what I've read on this thread, lots of Fox Hollow brides have DIY CPs and said that they boxed everything up, and Fox Hollow took care of it. I remember someone (davenjess?) saying that you should plan to spend a lot of time there, because they take extra care labeling everything you bring in.

One of my CPs will contain: a mirror base, an iron pillar candlestick, a pillar candle, 6 votives around, 3 photo frames around, and rose petals (which the florist said they will spread for me). I plan to set up one CP, take a picture, and put this in each box with all the CP supplies for each table, so they have a very clear idea of what to do. On average, I doubt it'd take more than a few minutes to set up each CP.

I'd really appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks!

On the up side, I asked about the size of the room so I can get started with my DIY aisle runner, and when I asked about what they use to prevent slipping, Dave said he'd give me the aisle runner to take with me! So now I have to return the other one to AC Moore, and knowing the dimensions, I can finally get started on that!

Another lesson learned: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. Whether or not the vendor wants to just agree verbally, have them write it in the contract. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that in the beginning. Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.

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this is the story of my life. LOL. Same thing happened with us and I had freaked out. We did diy centerpieces. I had asked time and time again if they were sure they would set them up for me or if I should hire someone to do it. I was reassured over and over that tehy did it. Well then like a month and a half before the wedding I was told tehy didn't do that. So I called and spoke to Eric- he is a manager there. And he promised me in writing that they would set them up. And they did. And did a beautiful job with it. I found that everyone gives different answers. its best to speak to someone higher up who can give you an accurate answer. Eric was VERY helpful!

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by GinaZ

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Posted by CC11208

I have a few questions regarding DIY CPs.....

I met with Dave today (Ron has since retired). I wanted to double check some things, and ask some further questions. I was told that they usually don't set up DIY CPs unless you use their house florist, and if they do set it up, they may charge me extra. Needless to say, Ron never mentioned that, and from what I've read on this thread, lots of Fox Hollow brides have DIY CPs and said that they boxed everything up, and Fox Hollow took care of it. I remember someone (davenjess?) saying that you should plan to spend a lot of time there, because they take extra care labeling everything you bring in.

One of my CPs will contain: a mirror base, an iron pillar candlestick, a pillar candle, 6 votives around, 3 photo frames around, and rose petals (which the florist said they will spread for me). I plan to set up one CP, take a picture, and put this in each box with all the CP supplies for each table, so they have a very clear idea of what to do. On average, I doubt it'd take more than a few minutes to set up each CP.

I'd really appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks!

On the up side, I asked about the size of the room so I can get started with my DIY aisle runner, and when I asked about what they use to prevent slipping, Dave said he'd give me the aisle runner to take with me! So now I have to return the other one to AC Moore, and knowing the dimensions, I can finally get started on that!

Another lesson learned: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. Whether or not the vendor wants to just agree verbally, have them write it in the contract. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that in the beginning. Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.

---

this is the story of my life. LOL. Same thing happened with us and I had freaked out. We did diy centerpieces. I had asked time and time again if they were sure they would set them up for me or if I should hire someone to do it. I was reassured over and over that tehy did it. Well then like a month and a half before the wedding I was told tehy didn't do that. So I called and spoke to Eric- he is a manager there. And he promised me in writing that they would set them up. And they did. And did a beautiful job with it. I found that everyone gives different answers. its best to speak to someone higher up who can give you an accurate answer. Eric was VERY helpful!

---

i was also a bride who had DIY CP's.. i have NO problems at all.. i dont know why other brides were having issues with that.. its not right that they are doing this!!

and i had the most difficult CP"s.. there were so many steps and i had floaters, and candle lights.. but they had no problems with it.. and they set it up amazing!!

i would definitlely tell them that you talk to other fox hollow girls that never had a problem.

good luck and hope it works out!!

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by Itsfinallymyturn

Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.


Now I am getting nervous I read that Ron is really gone, and I have in writing things like chair covers etc, but now I am nervous about the room that night at the Inn. He wrote it in our contract for a comp room. But now I am so afraid they are going to back peddle on stuff.


And is the cake selection really limited? Or are they willing to work with you!


MAN! I wish I was able to access this site more, no chat access at my office!!

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by Autumn08

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

YAY!! im so excited, my final meeting is this thursday..im going to ask a million questions!! anything that wasnt mentioned i will post!!

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I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!! The most important ?? to me is the cake one....so they give you credit and if so - how much?

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anytime girl!!
i cant wait to just give them a huge list to ask

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I'm so gunna crash your wedding - just to taste the food & then i'll leave! I HATE that they don't do tastings!

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yea it ***** they dont do tastings.. but ron bought us dinner in the restaurant after we booked.. how about you??

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He offered to buy us a few things - but not an entire dinner...we honestly had to leave though - so we went back to my parents' house...all giddy!

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I was told I was going to get dinner in the restaurant but never recieved anything.

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

We were very casually told that if we called to have dinner at the Fox Hollow and mentioned we were getting married there they "will probably comp you an appetizer, maybe dessert too." I was never promised the whole dinner....

FH and I will definitely go for our 1 year until we're married date... just so we can get a feel for it.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

bump!

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by CC11208

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by GinaZ

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Posted by CC11208

I have a few questions regarding DIY CPs.....

I met with Dave today (Ron has since retired). I wanted to double check some things, and ask some further questions. I was told that they usually don't set up DIY CPs unless you use their house florist, and if they do set it up, they may charge me extra. Needless to say, Ron never mentioned that, and from what I've read on this thread, lots of Fox Hollow brides have DIY CPs and said that they boxed everything up, and Fox Hollow took care of it. I remember someone (davenjess?) saying that you should plan to spend a lot of time there, because they take extra care labeling everything you bring in.

One of my CPs will contain: a mirror base, an iron pillar candlestick, a pillar candle, 6 votives around, 3 photo frames around, and rose petals (which the florist said they will spread for me). I plan to set up one CP, take a picture, and put this in each box with all the CP supplies for each table, so they have a very clear idea of what to do. On average, I doubt it'd take more than a few minutes to set up each CP.

I'd really appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks!

On the up side, I asked about the size of the room so I can get started with my DIY aisle runner, and when I asked about what they use to prevent slipping, Dave said he'd give me the aisle runner to take with me! So now I have to return the other one to AC Moore, and knowing the dimensions, I can finally get started on that!

Another lesson learned: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. Whether or not the vendor wants to just agree verbally, have them write it in the contract. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that in the beginning. Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.

---

this is the story of my life. LOL. Same thing happened with us and I had freaked out. We did diy centerpieces. I had asked time and time again if they were sure they would set them up for me or if I should hire someone to do it. I was reassured over and over that tehy did it. Well then like a month and a half before the wedding I was told tehy didn't do that. So I called and spoke to Eric- he is a manager there. And he promised me in writing that they would set them up. And they did. And did a beautiful job with it. I found that everyone gives different answers. its best to speak to someone higher up who can give you an accurate answer. Eric was VERY helpful!

---

i was also a bride who had DIY CP's.. i have NO problems at all.. i dont know why other brides were having issues with that.. its not right that they are doing this!!

and i had the most difficult CP"s.. there were so many steps and i had floaters, and candle lights.. but they had no problems with it.. and they set it up amazing!!

i would definitlely tell them that you talk to other fox hollow girls that never had a problem.

good luck and hope it works out!!

---

Gina and Deanna,

THANK YOU SO MUCH for responding and reassuring me. I KNOW what I was told by Ron, FH remembers too, and FH even said that I was adamant several times about writing things into the contract and got told, "no, don't worry about it, just call me when you're coming in, tell me what you need or want, don't worry, we'll take care of it for you." FH and I must've been told that about a dozen times.

Yes, I did tell Dave that I've spoken with many Fox Hollow brides, most of them are RECENT brides, and there weren't any problems setting up the DIY CPs. I'll try talking with Eric, now that you mentioned him. Dave is actually the director of sales, so he IS high up. Felt like I hit a wall, though. Ron had promised us not only appetizers and drinks in the restaurant, but it was, "Come back and have DINNER ON US. I knew about the drinks and appetizers from the brides on here, but when he said DINNER, FH and I asked several times was he sure, did we need to write that down, can it be written into the contract. Ron assured us that all we had to do was call when we were going to come for dinner, and he'd take care of everything, he'd meet us there, tell the restaurant that we'll be getting married there in Nov, and everything would be handled. FH and I planned to go at the end of July for our 3-year dating anniversary, a special fancy dinner on our anniversary in the very place where a few months later we'll be married. We've actually been looking forward to this for a long time, as FH travels frequently for business, and we usually don't do anything fancy, as we're pretty casual. But again, Ron promised, it wasn't written down, there's no record of it, Ron's gone, and I was told NO. Disappointing? Yes. End of the world? No. But it makes me really cautious about getting EVERYTHING in writing!!!!!

I'm definitely going to get the DIY CP set-up in writing. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone out, bought all the items, spent all the time creating everything, and would've just said, that's it, NO CPs at all, since we don't want to spend $$ on table flowers since we're putting the $$ somewhere else.

Thanks again! Your experiences and stories are easing my mind.

Back to getting invitations ready.....

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by CC11208

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Posted by Autumn08

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

YAY!! im so excited, my final meeting is this thursday..im going to ask a million questions!! anything that wasnt mentioned i will post!!

---

I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!!!! The most important ?? to me is the cake one....so they give you credit and if so - how much?

---

anytime girl!!
i cant wait to just give them a huge list to ask

---

I'm so gunna crash your wedding - just to taste the food & then i'll leave! I HATE that they don't do tastings!

---

yea it ***** they dont do tastings.. but ron bought us dinner in the restaurant after we booked.. how about you??

---

He offered to buy us a few things - but not an entire dinner...we honestly had to leave though - so we went back to my parents' house...all giddy!

---

I was told I was going to get dinner in the restaurant but never recieved anything.

---

I was just re-reading the first few pages of this thread and came upon this...... VERY relevant to my situation now!!!

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

wow - i'm really surprised at all the issues with the DIY centerpieces....seriously!!!!

Are any of us getting married soon with DIY cp's???? I think maybe someone needs to reach out to Jenn & see what she has to say about all this. Even if it doesn't pertain to you specifically, you can ask the questions.

I point blank told her, these questions aren't for me, but for the Fox Hollow thread & she said, 'oh, i know, we read it'...so i thought that was nice - that they take the time to check on our worries.

Keep in mind, i was married 6 months ago, but i'd like to think that they are still concerned with their image & keeping us girls happy!

Edited to add: if you have comp room on your contract, i can tell you that you will DEFINITELY have your room comped that night at the hotel. You don't even have to call and make the reservation - but it can't hurt for you to call the hotel and make sure it was done!

Message edited 7/10/2008 11:09:07 AM.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

i was married in November and had CPs that needed to be set up (branches spread, glass and candles unpacked, inserted, and lit) ... they didn't give me any trouble.

I had Christine Viola of Exquisite Affairs Prod as my DOC - I'm pretty sure she supervised and helped out with some of the setup, but the majority of it was done by Fox.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by davenjess

wow - i'm really surprised at all the issues with the DIY centerpieces....seriously!!!!

Are any of us getting married soon with DIY cp's???? I think maybe someone needs to reach out to Jenn & see what she has to say about all this. Even if it doesn't pertain to you specifically, you can ask the questions.

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Message edited 7/10/2008 5:41:45 PM.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

Who's Jenn? Is that your Banquet Manager or someone else I need to know

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by windyBride33

Who's Jenn? Is that your Banquet Manager or someone else I need to know

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by davenjess

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Posted by windyBride33

Who's Jenn? Is that your Banquet Manager or someone else I need to know

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Jenn is the woman you will go over your stuff with - your menu, your final prep stuff.....your cake...she's a GEM!!!!!!!!

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by CC11208

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Posted by DeannaNDave07

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Posted by GinaZ

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Posted by CC11208

I have a few questions regarding DIY CPs.....

I met with Dave today (Ron has since retired). I wanted to double check some things, and ask some further questions. I was told that they usually don't set up DIY CPs unless you use their house florist, and if they do set it up, they may charge me extra. Needless to say, Ron never mentioned that, and from what I've read on this thread, lots of Fox Hollow brides have DIY CPs and said that they boxed everything up, and Fox Hollow took care of it. I remember someone (davenjess?) saying that you should plan to spend a lot of time there, because they take extra care labeling everything you bring in.

One of my CPs will contain: a mirror base, an iron pillar candlestick, a pillar candle, 6 votives around, 3 photo frames around, and rose petals (which the florist said they will spread for me). I plan to set up one CP, take a picture, and put this in each box with all the CP supplies for each table, so they have a very clear idea of what to do. On average, I doubt it'd take more than a few minutes to set up each CP.

I'd really appreciate any information you can give me. Thanks!

On the up side, I asked about the size of the room so I can get started with my DIY aisle runner, and when I asked about what they use to prevent slipping, Dave said he'd give me the aisle runner to take with me! So now I have to return the other one to AC Moore, and knowing the dimensions, I can finally get started on that!

Another lesson learned: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY. Whether or not the vendor wants to just agree verbally, have them write it in the contract. I'm kicking myself that I didn't do that in the beginning. Ron promised us stuff and now he's gone, and they'll honor some things, but not others. It's a lesson I learned throughout this planning process.

---

this is the story of my life. LOL. Same thing happened with us and I had freaked out. We did diy centerpieces. I had asked time and time again if they were sure they would set them up for me or if I should hire someone to do it. I was reassured over and over that tehy did it. Well then like a month and a half before the wedding I was told tehy didn't do that. So I called and spoke to Eric- he is a manager there. And he promised me in writing that they would set them up. And they did. And did a beautiful job with it. I found that everyone gives different answers. its best to speak to someone higher up who can give you an accurate answer. Eric was VERY helpful!

---

i was also a bride who had DIY CP's.. i have NO problems at all.. i dont know why other brides were having issues with that.. its not right that they are doing this!!

and i had the most difficult CP"s.. there were so many steps and i had floaters, and candle lights.. but they had no problems with it.. and they set it up amazing!!

i would definitlely tell them that you talk to other fox hollow girls that never had a problem.

good luck and hope it works out!!

---

Gina and Deanna,

THANK YOU SO MUCH for responding and reassuring me. I KNOW what I was told by Ron, FH remembers too, and FH even said that I was adamant several times about writing things into the contract and got told, "no, don't worry about it, just call me when you're coming in, tell me what you need or want, don't worry, we'll take care of it for you." FH and I must've been told that about a dozen times.

Yes, I did tell Dave that I've spoken with many Fox Hollow brides, most of them are RECENT brides, and there weren't any problems setting up the DIY CPs. I'll try talking with Eric, now that you mentioned him. Dave is actually the director of sales, so he IS high up. Felt like I hit a wall, though. Ron had promised us not only appetizers and drinks in the restaurant, but it was, "Come back and have DINNER ON US. I knew about the drinks and appetizers from the brides on here, but when he said DINNER, FH and I asked several times was he sure, did we need to write that down, can it be written into the contract. Ron assured us that all we had to do was call when we were going to come for dinner, and he'd take care of everything, he'd meet us there, tell the restaurant that we'll be getting married there in Nov, and everything would be handled. FH and I planned to go at the end of July for our 3-year dating anniversary, a special fancy dinner on our anniversary in the very place where a few months later we'll be married. We've actually been looking forward to this for a long time, as FH travels frequently for business, and we usually don't do anything fancy, as we're pretty casual. But again, Ron promised, it wasn't written down, there's no record of it, Ron's gone, and I was told NO. Disappointing? Yes. End of the world? No. But it makes me really cautious about getting EVERYTHING in writing!!!!!

I'm definitely going to get the DIY CP set-up in writing. Otherwise I wouldn't have gone out, bought all the items, spent all the time creating everything, and would've just said, that's it, NO CPs at all, since we don't want to spend $$ on table flowers since we're putting the $$ somewhere else.

Thanks again! Your experiences and stories are easing my mind.

Back to getting invitations ready.....

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Message edited 7/11/2008 10:31:28 AM.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

Just got a response from Jenn at the Fox Hollow regarding the frames in the WGP and the centerpiece issue:

--------------------------------------------------------

As far as the table numbers, we do have frames, but they range in colors. If you have no preference to the color, you are more than welcome to use them. Each maitre'd has his/her own set, so I can not promise a certain look, but they are 4x6. Otherwise, if you want to bring your own, we can put those out and collect them after the wedding.

As far as the centerpieces, no problem. What is best is that when you come in for your final meeting the week of the party, either have one assembled, or take a picture or draw a picture of what the centerpiece should look like, that way your maitre'd and our operations managers, who will be setting up the room, know exactly the look you want, but you can definitely drop those off ahead of time, and we will take care of them as long as they are not too complicated, which seems to be the case.

--------------------------------------------------------

So, it looks like they will set up centerpieces with no problem as long as they are not complicated. And the frames ... I asked her if she knows what tones they all are - I am looking for any kind of earth tone, gold, brown, green, etc -- as long as they fit in that style, I'm good. Otherwise, I may have to buy my own. Which I may do anyway to ensure I get what I want.... great, more $$$$ ....

Message edited 7/11/2008 12:13:08 PM.

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

when we brought in our centerpieces, we seperated the stuff for each table. So in one box we had enough stuff for the centerpieces for 2 tables. In each box I also had typed instructions and a picture of the mock table my mom and i did. I kept it very simple and they set them up perfectly!

Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

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Posted by JBoothIn2008

Just got a response from Jenn at the Fox Hollow regarding the frames in the WGP and the centerpiece issue:

As far as the table numbers, we do have frames, but they range in colors. If you have no preference to the color, you are more than welcome to use them. Each maitre'd has his/her own set, so I can not promise a certain look, but they are 4x6. Otherwise, if you want to bring your own, we can put those out and collect them after the wedding.

As far as the centerpieces, no problem. What is best is that when you come in for your final meeting the week of the party, either have one assembled, or take a picture or draw a picture of what the centerpiece should look like, that way your maitre'd and our operations managers, who will be setting up the room, know exactly the look you want, but you can definitely drop those off ahead of time, and we will take care of them as long as they are not too complicated, which seems to be the case.

---------------------------------

So, it looks like they will set up centerpieces with no problem as long as they are not complicated. And the frames ... I asked her if she knows what tones they all are - I am looking for any kind of earth tone, gold, brown, green, etc -- as long as they fit in that style, I'm good. Otherwise, I may have to buy my own. Which I may do anyway to ensure I get what I want.... great, more $$$$ ....

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Re: FOX HOLLOW BRIDES - Question & Answer Thread

I got my reminder letter in the mail yesterday about meeting with Jen. I guess I should get on it before she books up! I just want to make sure I am prepared with a list of questions before I go. Is there anything anyone needs answering that I should include on my list???