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Does everyone like their engagement ring?

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BEANS
It's An Obsession

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH


Posted by stephanief


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

I was just curious if everyone likes their engagement ring. I am not to fond of it. It's cute It is a heart shape diamond and silver but I know it is from Walmart. I just feel like he should have saved up alittle while and got something else. All of his other friends have rings that cost in the thousands. Then when I come with my walmart special it just doesn't look right.

Also I feel we have broken engagements before. So Many fights I think a fresh start which what we are having with the new date maybe a new ring

I want everything right this time.


Wow, this post shocked me. If the ring is that important to you then you should say something. BUT, I think it is kinda mean what you said. A ring is no indication of whether your FH loves you or not. A happy marriage does NOT need a fancy, expensive eng. ring

JMHO

Good luck



Mean?

You do not know what I have been through in the last nine in a half years. To love someone so much and to keep that love in your heart every time you want to run out the door.

I am tired of people judging me on this internet. I even got yelled at by a man. Try living with you MIL and she can yell at you wish you die, then when she needs you she is your best friend. SIL's that never call when their mother says bad things about you to hear your side. They only hear a part of the truth.

What is wrong with me wanting to do things right? I am sure all of your relationships are not that perfect and you are not willing to open up like i did



You are right-none of us know what you have been through. However this is a public forum & if you are asking for opinions that is what you will receive. If you are having problems with FMIL or FSIL then you should speak with FH about it. I don't see how that issue has anything to do with your e-ring???? I agree that not everyone's relationships are perfect, & opening up did take alot of courage but maybe you need to sort all of this out with FH. A beautiful e-ring does not equal a happy/healthy relationship. If there are underlying problems you should deal with them before marriage.

Message edited 11/9/2005 2:31:01 PM.

Posted 11/9/05 2:29 PM
 

Ser29
Joe's girl

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4/14/2007 11:00 AM

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

Im sorry you feel that way. You asked for an opinion and that is all I gave. Love should be sacred, and should not be measured in the size of a diamond. It took me a long time to save up money for the ring I bought my FW, Especially longer since I was only making pennies a day!

Good Luck!

Posted 11/9/05 2:31 PM
 

mava61
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

It sounds a little bit like your situation is a little more deep-routed than just "the engagement ring." I think it's safe to assume that when your fi proposed to you he did it out of love and the desire to spend the rest of his life with you. But if you are unsure of this - you need to speak with him. No one is judging you, just giving their opinions.

Personally, I adore my ring - but its the fact that my fi went out of his way to pledge his love for me. When I think back to the day we got engaged I think of the way I felt when I realized how lucky I was to be spending the rest of my life with the man I loved more than anything - and to know that he felt the same exact way - the fact that we were about to "officially" begin our lives together - not the way the ring looked.

If you are going to display a post (especially one as controversial as this) you have to expect some adverse opinions. Consider it constructive criticism and take it for what its worth - all these people are trying to help you.

Posted 11/9/05 2:35 PM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

IT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE BROKEN PROMISES.

I did ask for an opinion but I did not think everyone's relationships were so perfect.

I am really not a bad person that everyone thinks I am.

Posted 11/9/05 2:36 PM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by mava61

It sounds a little bit like your situation is a little more deep-routed than just "the engagement ring." I think it's safe to assume that when your fi proposed to you he did it out of love and the desire to spend the rest of his life with you. But if you are unsure of this - you need to speak with him. No one is judging you, just giving their opinions.

Personally, I adore my ring - but its the fact that my fi went out of his way to pledge his love for me. When I think back to the day we got engaged I think of the way I felt when I realized how lucky I was to be spending the rest of my life with the man I loved more than anything - and to know that he felt the same exact way - the fact that we were about to "officially" begin our lives together - not the way the ring looked.

If you are going to display a post (especially one as controversial as this) you have to expect some adverse opinions. Consider it constructive criticism and take it for what its worth - all these people are trying to help you.



I did not think that this post would be so controversial as it is. Otherwise I would not have posted it.

Posted 11/9/05 2:38 PM
 

BEANS
It's An Obsession

Member since 12/04

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

IT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE BROKEN PROMISES.

I did ask for an opinion but I did not think everyone's relationships were so perfect.

I am really not a bad person that everyone thinks I am.




Take a deep breath, no one thinks you are a bad person. It is a touchy subject-that's all. IMO no one has a perfect relationship, but as stated above your problems seem to go deeper than your issue with your e-ring. A post like yoou made is maybe not so much controversial, but it gets everyone's attention. I also adore my ring, never expected to get the one FH got me, but if it was different, I would be happy because I am so in love with him. I think maybe you shoud re-evaluate your relationship & try to find out what is really making you unhappy. I read the original post & now realize that you never asked for opinion...sorry

Message edited 11/9/2005 2:43:37 PM.

Posted 11/9/05 2:42 PM
 

mava61
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH


Posted by mava61

It sounds a little bit like your situation is a little more deep-routed than just "the engagement ring." I think it's safe to assume that when your fi proposed to you he did it out of love and the desire to spend the rest of his life with you. But if you are unsure of this - you need to speak with him. No one is judging you, just giving their opinions.

Personally, I adore my ring - but its the fact that my fi went out of his way to pledge his love for me. When I think back to the day we got engaged I think of the way I felt when I realized how lucky I was to be spending the rest of my life with the man I loved more than anything - and to know that he felt the same exact way - the fact that we were about to "officially" begin our lives together - not the way the ring looked.

If you are going to display a post (especially one as controversial as this) you have to expect some adverse opinions. Consider it constructive criticism and take it for what its worth - all these people are trying to help you.



I did not think that this post would be so controversial as it is. Otherwise I would not have posted it.



All I am saying is that you obviously posted to get people's opinions so why get so down when people give them to you?

Posted 11/9/05 2:42 PM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by BEANS


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

IT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE BROKEN PROMISES.

I did ask for an opinion but I did not think everyone's relationships were so perfect.

I am really not a bad person that everyone thinks I am.




Take a deep breath, no one thinks you are a bad person. It is a touchy subject-that's all. IMO no one has a perfect relationship, but as stated above your problems seem to go deeper than your issue with your e-ring. A post like yoou made is maybe not so much controversial, but it gets everyone's attention. I also adore my ring, never expected to get the one FH got me, but if it was different, I would be happy because I am so in love with him. I think maybe you shoud re-evaluate your relationship & try to find out what is really making you unhappy.

I am thinking the ring Maybe I am using an excuse for the other problems.

Posted 11/9/05 2:43 PM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by mava61


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH


Posted by mava61

It sounds a little bit like your situation is a little more deep-routed than just "the engagement ring." I think it's safe to assume that when your fi proposed to you he did it out of love and the desire to spend the rest of his life with you. But if you are unsure of this - you need to speak with him. No one is judging you, just giving their opinions.

Personally, I adore my ring - but its the fact that my fi went out of his way to pledge his love for me. When I think back to the day we got engaged I think of the way I felt when I realized how lucky I was to be spending the rest of my life with the man I loved more than anything - and to know that he felt the same exact way - the fact that we were about to "officially" begin our lives together - not the way the ring looked.

If you are going to display a post (especially one as controversial as this) you have to expect some adverse opinions. Consider it constructive criticism and take it for what its worth - all these people are trying to help you.



I did not think that this post would be so controversial as it is. Otherwise I would not have posted it.



All I am saying is that you obviously posted to get people's opinions so why get so down when people give them to you?



I never thought the opinions would be like this.

Posted 11/9/05 2:44 PM
 

Ser29
Joe's girl

Member since 1/05

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4/14/2007 11:00 AM

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

I do NOT think you are a bad person.

I didn't want to say this but hell I just think you are a very confused person. I think the ring is just an excuse at this point. Just do me a favor and just be honest with yourself. Don't want to do something you are going to regret.

I do NOT have the perfect relationship. Trust me! LOL. I love her dearly, but that still doesn't cover the fact that she is a never leaving pain in my ***. I still love her though. After a while of aggravation for some reason; it becomes cute.

Good Luck

Posted 11/9/05 2:53 PM
 

stephanief
It's fun to be ONE!!!!

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH


Posted by stephanief


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

I was just curious if everyone likes their engagement ring. I am not to fond of it. It's cute It is a heart shape diamond and silver but I know it is from Walmart. I just feel like he should have saved up alittle while and got something else. All of his other friends have rings that cost in the thousands. Then when I come with my walmart special it just doesn't look right.

Also I feel we have broken engagements before. So Many fights I think a fresh start which what we are having with the new date maybe a new ring

I want everything right this time.


Wow, this post shocked me. If the ring is that important to you then you should say something. BUT, I think it is kinda mean what you said. A ring is no indication of whether your FH loves you or not. A happy marriage does NOT need a fancy, expensive eng. ring

JMHO

Good luck



Mean?

You do not know what I have been through in the last nine in a half years. To love someone so much and to keep that love in your heart every time you want to run out the door.

I am tired of people judging me on this internet. I even got yelled at by a man. Try living with you MIL and she can yell at you wish you die, then when she needs you she is your best friend. SIL's that never call when their mother says bad things about you to hear your side. They only hear a part of the truth.

What is wrong with me wanting to do things right? I am sure all of your relationships are not that perfect and you are not willing to open up like i did



OK, let me apologize if I hurt your feelings. You did not go into all that detail about the history. All I was saying is the way you wrote that post it seemed like the ring was the most important thing to you, and I feel that is mean. I'm sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention. You do what is right for you, if you think it is ok to tell your FH you hate the ring, then do it !! Good luck

Posted 11/9/05 4:43 PM
 

soon2bmrsdunn
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

I love my ring!!!

Maybe I would feel differently if I didn't but IMO I think that how you are treating your FI and the ring he gave you is terrible. The ring is not the most important thing. Just like the hall and the flowers and your dress. What matters is the marriage. Just think about that.

Posted 11/10/05 10:47 AM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by soon2bmrsdunn

I love my ring!!!

Maybe I would feel differently if I didn't but IMO I think that how you are treating your FI and the ring he gave you is terrible. The ring is not the most important thing. Just like the hall and the flowers and your dress. What matters is the marriage. Just think about that.



pLEASE DO NOT JUDGE ME!

Posted 11/10/05 11:09 AM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by soon2bmrsdunn

I love my ring!!!

Maybe I would feel differently if I didn't but IMO I think that how you are treating your FI and the ring he gave you is terrible. The ring is not the most important thing. Just like the hall and the flowers and your dress. What matters is the marriage. Just think about that.



Message edited 11/10/2005 11:11:25 AM.

Posted 11/10/05 11:10 AM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

Member since 9/05

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by stephanief


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH


Posted by stephanief


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

I was just curious if everyone likes their engagement ring. I am not to fond of it. It's cute It is a heart shape diamond and silver but I know it is from Walmart. I just feel like he should have saved up alittle while and got something else. All of his other friends have rings that cost in the thousands. Then when I come with my walmart special it just doesn't look right.

Also I feel we have broken engagements before. So Many fights I think a fresh start which what we are having with the new date maybe a new ring

I want everything right this time.


Wow, this post shocked me. If the ring is that important to you then you should say something. BUT, I think it is kinda mean what you said. A ring is no indication of whether your FH loves you or not. A happy marriage does NOT need a fancy, expensive eng. ring

JMHO

Good luck



Mean?

You do not know what I have been through in the last nine in a half years. To love someone so much and to keep that love in your heart every time you want to run out the door.

I am tired of people judging me on this internet. I even got yelled at by a man. Try living with you MIL and she can yell at you wish you die, then when she needs you she is your best friend. SIL's that never call when their mother says bad things about you to hear your side. They only hear a part of the truth.

What is wrong with me wanting to do things right? I am sure all of your relationships are not that perfect and you are not willing to open up like i did



OK, let me apologize if I hurt your feelings. You did not go into all that detail about the history. All I was saying is the way you wrote that post it seemed like the ring was the most important thing to you, and I feel that is mean. I'm sorry if I offended you, it was not my intention. You do what is right for you, if you think it is ok to tell your FH you hate the ring, then do it !! Good luck



Posted 11/10/05 11:12 AM
 

soon2bmrsdunn
I love my husband!!!

Member since 11/05

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Wedding Date:
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

Ok take away the part where I judged you. I still don't think the ring is the most important thing.

Also I posted this before I read what you wrote about you FI's family. So I apologize. However I think you should talk to your FI about the other stuff that is bothering you first as IMO (again) I think that this is where all the problem are.

Good luck.

Posted 11/10/05 11:18 AM
 

PegaLega
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH

IT IS MOSTLY ABOUT THE BROKEN PROMISES.

I did ask for an opinion but I did not think everyone's relationships were so perfect.

I am really not a bad person that everyone thinks I am.




I understand where you are coming from as far as new ring new start-I dont think that you meant it the way that we-being on the computer took it. No ones relationship is perfect, I dont care who you are!!! It has its ups and downs-I know mine isnt and there are times when I could strangle FH. and everyone else that is around.
What i think you meant was that there is a bit of a let down when it comes to the "meaning" of your ring-you dont like the ring itself but if it had more behind it you would still wear it proudly...No one is judging you. If i were in your position I would feel the same way!
Good Luck-I have to agree though that maybe you need to think about things that are going on with you and FH-maybe it isnt about the ring. You might think that a new ring will mean he will change, and that may not happen. Think about this for a minute-is it really about the ring?

Posted 11/10/05 11:15 PM
 

Jen2999
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

Sorry to intrude on this board as an 06'er but I had been following this thread and I do feel the need to state my opinion.

Now.. I dont think she is "all about the ring"...the issue is that he is not taking their relationship seriously. I think that a lot of you girls are kidding yourself when you say that after all the fighting and the issues with a relationship FH finally gave you a ring from walmart, thatd youd be perfectly happy..

YES.. I would be happy IF it were an issue where we really didnt have a lot of money and he was just dsperate to marry me, HOWEVER I do not think that is the case here. I think she just wants her FH to finally stand up and commit to more than just "the ring" but to the entire relationship and take it seriosuly.

I think what you are all trying to say is that it is the thought that counts, however, if you read her comments, there doesnt seem to be much thought. If there WAS thought and effort behind all of it, I think she would feel very differently about ANY ring that was given to her.

I realize I am being a bit presumtuous about her situation, but I think you are ll a **tad** to defensive about the topic instead of putting yourself in her shoes. It is easy to say.. well who cares about a walmart ring, but maybe there is more to it than that.

Hope I dont get flamed for this.. but I just felt the poor girl was drowning among the posts.

Posted 11/11/05 9:39 AM
 

lilpie19
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by Jen2999

Sorry to intrude on this board as an 06'er but I had been following this thread and I do feel the need to state my opinion.

Now.. I dont think she is "all about the ring"...the issue is that he is not taking their relationship seriously. I think that a lot of you girls are kidding yourself when you say that after all the fighting and the issues with a relationship FH finally gave you a ring from walmart, thatd youd be perfectly happy..

YES.. I would be happy IF it were an issue where we really didnt have a lot of money and he was just dsperate to marry me, HOWEVER I do not think that is the case here. I think she just wants her FH to finally stand up and commit to more than just "the ring" but to the entire relationship and take it seriously.

I think what you are all trying to say is that it is the thought that counts, however, if you read her comments, there doesn't seem to be much thought. If there WAS thought and effort behind all of it, I think she would feel very differently about ANY ring that was given to her.

I realize I am being a bit presumtuous about her situation, but I think you are ll a **tad** to defensive about the topic instead of putting yourself in her shoes. It is easy to say.. well who cares about a walmart ring, but maybe there is more to it than that.

Hope I dont get flamed for this.. but I just felt the poor girl was drowning among the posts.



I absolutely agree with you 100%. We should put ourselves in her shoes. It's not just a ring from walmart, it's the fact that he didn't put any thought or effort into buying the ring that upsets her. I would be upset too. A ring is a ring, yes, but you want your FH to put thought into buying you that ring because it's a symbol of love and a bond between the two of you. I think we are being a little defensive towards her, she posted her story for us to help her and give her advice and in turn we are making her feel judged and like a "bad person"....is this how we want to treat our fellow LIW brides? I don't think so....no one should feel judged...we aren't in her shoes, we can't judge her. She didn't write the post because she is materialistic, she wrote the post so that we could support her and offer her advice as to what to do and try to put ourselves in her perspective. I don't think it's fair that we make her feel upset and put down.

Posted 11/11/05 9:49 AM
 

stephanief
It's fun to be ONE!!!!

Member since 7/05

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Wedding Date:
4/15/2006 6:30 PM

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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by lilpie19


Posted by Jen2999

Sorry to intrude on this board as an 06'er but I had been following this thread and I do feel the need to state my opinion.

Now.. I dont think she is "all about the ring"...the issue is that he is not taking their relationship seriously. I think that a lot of you girls are kidding yourself when you say that after all the fighting and the issues with a relationship FH finally gave you a ring from walmart, thatd youd be perfectly happy..

YES.. I would be happy IF it were an issue where we really didnt have a lot of money and he was just dsperate to marry me, HOWEVER I do not think that is the case here. I think she just wants her FH to finally stand up and commit to more than just "the ring" but to the entire relationship and take it seriously.

I think what you are all trying to say is that it is the thought that counts, however, if you read her comments, there doesn't seem to be much thought. If there WAS thought and effort behind all of it, I think she would feel very differently about ANY ring that was given to her.

I realize I am being a bit presumtuous about her situation, but I think you are ll a **tad** to defensive about the topic instead of putting yourself in her shoes. It is easy to say.. well who cares about a walmart ring, but maybe there is more to it than that.

Hope I dont get flamed for this.. but I just felt the poor girl was drowning among the posts.



I absolutely agree with you 100%. We should put ourselves in her shoes. It's not just a ring from walmart, it's the fact that he didn't put any thought or effort into buying the ring that upsets her. I would be upset too. A ring is a ring, yes, but you want your FH to put thought into buying you that ring because it's a symbol of love and a bond between the two of you. I think we are being a little defensive towards her, she posted her story for us to help her and give her advice and in turn we are making her feel judged and like a "bad person"....is this how we want to treat our fellow LIW brides? I don't think so....no one should feel judged...we aren't in her shoes, we can't judge her. She didn't write the post because she is materialistic, she wrote the post so that we could support her and offer her advice as to what to do and try to put ourselves in her perspective. I don't think it's fair that we make her feel upset and put down.



I agree, however, don't ask for opinions and advice if you can't take it. That is my opinion

Posted 11/11/05 10:05 AM
 

Blu-ize
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?

There's more here than the ring. Work out the reason you are upset about the ring first. Then after that, you can talk about an upgrade.

If you have broken up and gotten back together a few times maybe there's some issues you guys have to discuss.

I would be a little annoyed at the lack of effort about the purchase of the ring. Are you throwing a big wedding? If there's money for that, there should be money for a ring.

Posted 11/11/05 10:29 AM
 

Jen2999
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by stephanief


Posted by lilpie19


Posted by Jen2999

Sorry to intrude on this board as an 06'er but I had been following this thread and I do feel the need to state my opinion.

Now.. I dont think she is "all about the ring"...the issue is that he is not taking their relationship seriously. I think that a lot of you girls are kidding yourself when you say that after all the fighting and the issues with a relationship FH finally gave you a ring from walmart, thatd youd be perfectly happy..

YES.. I would be happy IF it were an issue where we really didnt have a lot of money and he was just dsperate to marry me, HOWEVER I do not think that is the case here. I think she just wants her FH to finally stand up and commit to more than just "the ring" but to the entire relationship and take it seriously.

I think what you are all trying to say is that it is the thought that counts, however, if you read her comments, there doesn't seem to be much thought. If there WAS thought and effort behind all of it, I think she would feel very differently about ANY ring that was given to her.

I realize I am being a bit presumtuous about her situation, but I think you are ll a **tad** to defensive about the topic instead of putting yourself in her shoes. It is easy to say.. well who cares about a walmart ring, but maybe there is more to it than that.

Hope I dont get flamed for this.. but I just felt the poor girl was drowning among the posts.



I absolutely agree with you 100%. We should put ourselves in her shoes. It's not just a ring from walmart, it's the fact that he didn't put any thought or effort into buying the ring that upsets her. I would be upset too. A ring is a ring, yes, but you want your FH to put thought into buying you that ring because it's a symbol of love and a bond between the two of you. I think we are being a little defensive towards her, she posted her story for us to help her and give her advice and in turn we are making her feel judged and like a "bad person"....is this how we want to treat our fellow LIW brides? I don't think so....no one should feel judged...we aren't in her shoes, we can't judge her. She didn't write the post because she is materialistic, she wrote the post so that we could support her and offer her advice as to what to do and try to put ourselves in her perspective. I don't think it's fair that we make her feel upset and put down.



I agree, however, don't ask for opinions and advice if you can't take it. That is my opinion





She didnt ask for an opinion thats the thing....she asked if everyone likes THEIR ring... not for people to judge hers

Posted 11/11/05 10:37 AM
 

JanuaryBride06
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Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by Jen2999

She didnt ask for an opinion thats the thing....she asked if everyone likes THEIR ring... not for people to judge hers



I've been reading this thread for a while too and I think that you are right on the money for both of your posts.

Posted 11/11/05 10:41 AM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

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2326 total posts

Wedding Date:
6/15/2007 12:00 AM

Wed. Location:

Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by Jen2999

Sorry to intrude on this board as an 06'er but I had been following this thread and I do feel the need to state my opinion.

Now.. I dont think she is "all about the ring"...the issue is that he is not taking their relationship seriously. I think that a lot of you girls are kidding yourself when you say that after all the fighting and the issues with a relationship FH finally gave you a ring from walmart, thatd youd be perfectly happy..

YES.. I would be happy IF it were an issue where we really didnt have a lot of money and he was just dsperate to marry me, HOWEVER I do not think that is the case here. I think she just wants her FH to finally stand up and commit to more than just "the ring" but to the entire relationship and take it seriosuly.

I think what you are all trying to say is that it is the thought that counts, however, if you read her comments, there doesnt seem to be much thought. If there WAS thought and effort behind all of it, I think she would feel very differently about ANY ring that was given to her.

I realize I am being a bit presumtuous about her situation, but I think you are ll a **tad** to defensive about the topic instead of putting yourself in her shoes. It is easy to say.. well who cares about a walmart ring, but maybe there is more to it than that.

Hope I dont get flamed for this.. but I just felt the poor girl was drowning among the posts.



I do feel like i am drowning amoung the posts defending my self.

Posted 11/11/05 11:00 AM
 

FUTUREBRIDETOKEITH
winter already?

Member since 9/05

2326 total posts

Wedding Date:
6/15/2007 12:00 AM

Wed. Location:

Re: Does everyone like their engagement ring?


Posted by JanuaryBride06


Posted by Jen2999

She didnt ask for an opinion thats the thing....she asked if everyone likes THEIR ring... not for people to judge hers



I've been reading this thread for a while too and I think that you are right on the money for both of your posts.



I did ask if everyone like their ring.

Posted 11/11/05 11:01 AM
 
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4
 

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