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endlessluv429
Still feel like a newlywed!
Member since 10/02 4396 total posts
Wedding Date:
11/6/2004 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
North Ritz Club
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
alright, i am sooo not getting into all these specifics-just saying that the whole IDEA of Christmas whether its dec 25th or june 25th was to celebrate the birth of Jesus--
I am fully aware that people celebrate it in different ways--FINE--it's totally FINE with me but as a CHRISTIAN it upsets me a little when I see people getting away from what i believe is the true meaning--that's it 
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:29:17 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:28 AM 
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shamma
I'M BLESSED & HIGHLY FAVORED!!
Member since 10/01 19178 total posts
Wedding Date:
8/3/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Chateau Briand A+
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Well I guess, whenever anyone or their religion chooses to celebrate it, is a matter of choice. As Christians we were raised to celebrate it on Dec 25th and I do not have a problem with it. I celebrate my b-day after the fact especially if it falls on a work day Does not make it still not about my b-day 
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:31:20 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:29 AM
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Samanthas Mom
My Lil Samantha
Member since 12/01 14111 total posts
Wedding Date:
8/25/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
fox hollow
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Misty
I had a menorah and nothing to do too! LOL
but I usually got invited to a friends house or I had cousins that intermarried so I just went there on christmas eve or christmas day
Erica- is right though about when he was born, we celebrate Christmas on Dec 25th but I read in a book once that Jesus was actually born sometime in sept-october........ but now Dec 25th is the national holiday but he wasnt born in december........... that is the day of celebration now of his birth but he was actually born a different month..... I did hear that BUT no one knows the exact month or day and that is why everyone celebrates it on 12/25
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:31:01 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:30 AM
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Xelindrya
Goodbye Sparky-love you
Member since 7/03 7862 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/23/2004 11:30 AM
Wed. Location:
Stewart Manor Ctry Club
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Sorry have to add a few of my pennies to this pot.
Holiday Season..yes.. but Christmas is a Season in itself. We theoretically celebrate the birth of Christ. It’s also a holiday of Old Saint Nick who passed out presents. I find it interesting that we confuse the two to be the same.
As for Xmas being on the 25th of December, as some will verify that was just a move by the Christians (lets be PC) to wipe out a Pegan Holiday which WAS on the 25th. Christ was not born in December.
So.. we have a holiday SEASON to celebrate a birthday on the wrong day.
THEN we have separately a holiday SEASON of giving. Since it’s on the day of Christmas we call it the Christmas tree. I see no harm in that.
What I don’t get are the Jews (pardon me.. I know I’ll get flamed for this) but.. for Xmas people get nuts if the tree is left up more than a week or so after xmas. Take it down.. blah blah.. but the Menorah and the celebration of lights (which correct me if Im wrong) is about a prayer for oil to last which ended up lasting 8 days and the celebration of this miracle. This holiday doesn’t really have a calendar date like Dec 25, but it’s more of a moving target. However, once the lights are lit, they stay there. NO ONE takes them down, which oddly enough goes in the face of the miracle doesn’t it?
This doesn’t happen in the South. The Menorah goes up and comes down in the time allotted for the celebration of the miracle (yes there are Jews in the south). Here, lets face it, it’s purely PC. No store owner whose worth his weight in salt would EVER remove the Menorah without taking the down the tree. It’s bad for business. Can’t slight the Jews or you get blasted. I find this more insulting than just taking it down. But I’m not Jewish so perhaps they don’t see it my way.
Taking all religious related things away and leaving it the season of giving with the Christmas tree and other winter items is fine, but then remove the Menorah. Why call it a Christmas tree and not holiday tree? Because the day which we give the gifts (thereby using the tree) is called Christmas day, which is also why we call it a birthday cake not a holiday cake.
As far as Xmas vs Christmas. Heck it’s a Cross.. X if you want to make it religious. Xmas vs Christmas is going PC in the opposite direction to me. Who cares? God didn’t give me my name, my parents did. I have my doubts that God, Christ or the “holy spirit” (which I could call Bob) care. They are called Allah and Jehovah and other names in other places. What would a deity such as God or Christ care what they are called as long as they are worshipped correctly?
Just my $.02, which I’m sure I may have accidentally bashed someone. I didn’t intend to, this is my honest opinion.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:32 AM
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Samanthas Mom
My Lil Samantha
Member since 12/01 14111 total posts
Wedding Date:
8/25/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
fox hollow
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by endlessluv429
alright, i am sooo not getting into all these specifics-just saying that the whole IDEA of Christmas whether its dec 25th or june 25th was to celebrate the birth of Jesus--
I am fully aware that people celebrate it in different ways--FINE--it's totally FINE with me but as a CHRISTIAN it upsets me a little when I see people getting away from what i believe is the true meaning--that's it
That makes sense!
I see why you are upset as a Christian b/c I am one too now, christmas if very commercialized now w/ a lot of pagan things..... some say santa and reindeer are pagan................... while the lights and trees and everything look very pretty Christmas is to celebrate his birth not really about buying presents and decorating but that is what it has become and that makes some people very happy and others sad who want to celebrate the real meaning of christmas day
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Posted 12/2/03 11:33 AM
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Sonicstef
FREE MARTHA !!!
Member since 2/01 8413 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/5/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Yale Club (NYC)
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Christmas is to celebrate his birth not really about buying presents and decorating but that is what it has become and that makes some people very happy and others sad who want to celebrate the real meaning of christmas day
I guess I just dont understand how people buying gifts or decorating with reindeers takes away from a religious persons celebrations. If someone put a menorah in their window, it doesnt make me want to throw out of my Christmas gifts. Anyway - I just dont understand the connection with upseting one holiday to celebrate another. But I think we can all agree to disagree on this one. Everyone has very good points and maybe this discussion will help us fine tune the way we celebrate our traditions and make us cherish each other and our celebrations a bit more this year. to all!
Now, who wants to sing with me?
Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas...
Feliz Navidad...ba ba ba bum, Feliz Navidad...
Driedel, Driedel, Driedel, I made it out of clay...
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Posted 12/2/03 11:40 AM
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endlessluv429
Still feel like a newlywed!
Member since 10/02 4396 total posts
Wedding Date:
11/6/2004 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
North Ritz Club
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
god bless you tammy for clearing that up--words were just not coming out properly
thanks for the songs stef 
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:41:32 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:40 AM
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jenny11.9
The List Keeper
Member since 1/02 4536 total posts
Wedding Date:
11/9/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Oheka Castle
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
I go caroling every year with my family - it's a huge bonfire, with a group of drunken Irish singing all the favorites. Then we sing them twice because we forgot what we sang.
Then somebody starts Happy Birthday to Jesus and everybody gets uncomfortable. We used to go door to door but lost too many revelers on the way so we stay in one spot and wait till we tap the spike hot chocolate and then head up to my uncle's house for thumbprint cookies and irish toddies.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:41 AM
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yabbobay
Tolerance
Member since 5/01 14697 total posts
Wedding Date:
7/14/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by endlessluv429
alright, i am sooo not getting into all these specifics-just saying that the whole IDEA of Christmas whether its dec 25th or june 25th was to celebrate the birth of Jesus--
I am fully aware that people celebrate it in different ways--FINE--it's totally FINE with me but as a CHRISTIAN it upsets me a little when I see people getting away from what i believe is the true meaning--that's it
this is tha whole point...for you its one thing...for me its a COMPLETELY different thing...why do Christains have to get there way but other groups cannot...thats the reason governments should have NO religious material on public land...
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Posted 12/2/03 11:42 AM
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Samanthas Mom
My Lil Samantha
Member since 12/01 14111 total posts
Wedding Date:
8/25/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
fox hollow
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
lol Stef
there is nothing wrong w/ buying gifts I was just saying I understood Alison's point about the real meaning of christmas being forgotten, not by everyone but by many
many sit around the tree and open gifts all day but probably do not even think of God, not all but some do I am sure
ETS: I was on the phone w/ Amy and typped Amy instead of Alison twice! sorry
Message edited 12/2/2003 12:09:05 PM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:42 AM
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Sassyz75
My Chihuahua!!!!!
Member since 11/02 4848 total posts
Wedding Date:
1/31/2003 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Carlyle on The Green
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
My DH and I are not religious. I'm a lapsed Catholic and he is nothing... yes, nothing- never baptized or indoctrinated into a religion. We celebrate presents and decorations. We call our religion "Holiday"...
I am sorry for Christians that are upset that their holiday is being ruined- but that is what America is about- tolerance and understanding. You want to celebrate otherwise- fine with us. Just don't shove it down our throats. The constitution was created to protect the minority from the majority- not the other way around.
Edited to say- why does anyone care who thinks about God on December 25th- religion is a personal thing. No one should think they are better than anyone else because they are more religious (um, isnt' that a sin anyway?)
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:46:43 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:44 AM
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yabbobay
Tolerance
Member since 5/01 14697 total posts
Wedding Date:
7/14/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by Xelindrya
What I don’t get are the Jews (pardon me.. I know I’ll get flamed for this) but.. for Xmas people get nuts if the tree is left up more than a week or so after xmas. Take it down.. blah blah.. but the Menorah and the celebration of lights (which correct me if Im wrong) is about a prayer for oil to last which ended up lasting 8 days and the celebration of this miracle. This holiday doesn’t really have a calendar date like Dec 25, but it’s more of a moving target. However, once the lights are lit, they stay there. NO ONE takes them down, which oddly enough goes in the face of the miracle doesn’t it?
I know if I were Jewish I would keep my menorah up as long as possible...to bring awareness of the holiday...
if you are going to play by those rules the tree should only go up on the 24th...and down the 25th (but I personally would give you until 1/6 - the 12th day - right?)
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Posted 12/2/03 11:45 AM
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yabbobay
Tolerance
Member since 5/01 14697 total posts
Wedding Date:
7/14/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by tammyjill
many sit around the tree and open gifts all day but probably do not even think of God, not all but some do I am sure
this was my family growing up and I have NO problem with it
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Posted 12/2/03 11:46 AM
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Sonicstef
FREE MARTHA !!!
Member since 2/01 8413 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/5/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Yale Club (NYC)
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Whose to say that the Christian meaning is the "real meaning"? I think that is the problem. Believing that one way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. It leaves no room for people who dont believe in Christ. Should athethists hide in a cave for the month of December?
Anyway - agree to disagree
I guess no one liked those songs... how about:
Dominic the Donkey - eehaw eehaw eehaw....
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Posted 12/2/03 11:47 AM
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Samanthas Mom
My Lil Samantha
Member since 12/01 14111 total posts
Wedding Date:
8/25/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
fox hollow
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by endlessluv429
god bless you tammy for clearing that up--words were just not coming out properly
thanks for the songs stef
ALISON- I know what you meant and that you didnt mean anything bad to anyone!
Message edited 12/2/2003 12:09:26 PM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:47 AM
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Xelindrya
Goodbye Sparky-love you
Member since 7/03 7862 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/23/2004 11:30 AM
Wed. Location:
Stewart Manor Ctry Club
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by yabbobay
if you are going to play by those rules the tree should only go up on the 24th...and down the 25th (but I personally would give you until 1/6 - the 12th day - right?)
Actually my tree does.
It's a one day thing.
If I leave it up it's cause I forget it..but as stated above.. it's NOT a religious item for me. I find the Holiday Season of Giving to have NOTHING to do with the birth of Christ.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:47 AM
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Sage10.03
It's An Obsession
Member since 11/02 4365 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/4/2003 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Fiesole, Italy
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by yabbobay
Posted by tammyjill
many sit around the tree and open gifts all day but probably do not even think of God, not all but some do I am sure
this was my family growing up and I have NO problem with it
Mine as well Yabbobay....and I have no problem with it either for the exact reasons that Stef posted in her post below
Posted by SonicStef:
"Whose to say that the Christian meaning is the "real meaning"? I think that is the problem. Believing that one way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. It leaves no room for people who dont believe in Christ. Should athethists hide in a cave for the month of December?"
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:50:15 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:49 AM
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shelzyp
Beyond Obsession
Member since 1/03 7429 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/12/2003 5:30 PM
Wed. Location:
Villa Lombardi's
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
its widly accepted that Jesus Christ was born in the spring - but that would have been too close to Easter so it didnt fit the schedule!!!)
To me Christmas, Xmas, whatever you want to call it, is about family, spending time with loved ones, and holiday cheer. It never was or will be about jesus being born. If people want to celebrate his birth go for, I could care less, but if someone wanted to stop you, it would be a war. Why is it okay for Religous zealots, to make me stop celebrating the way I want.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:50 AM
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Lisa Rose
'Tis the Season!!
Member since 2/01 7083 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/20/2001 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
West Lake Inn
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by yabbobay
if you are going to play by those rules the tree should only go up on the 24th...and down the 25th (but I personally would give you until 1/6 - the 12th day - right?)
Ohhhhhhhhhhh you are so right on that one!! I remember in my family, we used to get a real tree and put it up only a few days before Christmas and it would come down right after New Year's day.
Our tree is up so early this year...and I think I know why that is. We have been bombarded by Christmas commercials and what not since Halloween and I think that I thought I was late with doing all my "Christmas" stuff!! I think that we are rushing the seasons too fast. Christmas commercials and decorations should not be out until AFTER thanksgiving.
Does anyone else feel that Thanksgiving took a back seat this year and that Christmas pushed it right out of the way?? 
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Posted 12/2/03 11:51 AM
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yabbobay
Tolerance
Member since 5/01 14697 total posts
Wedding Date:
7/14/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Stef...I actually really like Feliz Navidad (I was just too caught up) and now DH taught me the words (not like there are many - I can sing along!!)
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Posted 12/2/03 11:52 AM
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Misty
Beyond Obsession
Member since 9/02 8412 total posts
Wedding Date:
6/20/2010 12:00 AM
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
What I don’t get are the Jews (pardon me.. I know I’ll get flamed for this) but.. for Xmas people get nuts if the tree is left up more than a week or so after xmas. Take it down.. blah blah.. but the Menorah and the celebration of lights (which correct me if Im wrong) is about a prayer for oil to last which ended up lasting 8 days and the celebration of this miracle. This holiday doesn’t really have a calendar date like Dec 25, but it’s more of a moving target. However, once the lights are lit, they stay there. NO ONE takes them down, which oddly enough goes in the face of the miracle doesn’t it?
Ok. I'm not flaming, but allow me to punch some holes here.
Who exactly gets nuts when a tree is left up after Christmas? I don't, no one I know does...no matter how "jewish" they are.
You are correct about the reasoning behing Chanukah, however, the date is a "moving target" because the Jewish calander is based upon the earth you live on. Every holiday on the jewish calender is a different date every year, because they are not celebrated based upon the date they happened, rather the earth, the sun, the moon, and time. It is based upon seasons, sundown and sun up. Not dates. It is actually one of, if not the most acurate calenders in the world, counting from the very beginning of time and not stopping.
The menorah is left up for 8 days, and then some because maybe whomever has it up feels like it, just like a Christmas tree. Personally, my menorah goes up a few days before and comes down sometime after the end of the holiday. Usually when I remember to take it down. Each light is lit and a prayer is said each evening at sundown to portray and reflect what the Macabees went through and the miracle that the oil lasted for 8 straight days. It's a pretty accurate and necessary representation don't you agree? I'm not quite understanding what is going "in the face of the miracle" here? We aren't trying to recreate a miracle, just trying to pay homage.
Message edited 12/2/2003 11:58:32 AM.
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Posted 12/2/03 11:55 AM
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Sonicstef
FREE MARTHA !!!
Member since 2/01 8413 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/5/2002 12:00 AM
Wed. Location:
Yale Club (NYC)
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Has anyone seen the move Love, Actually? I think that is such a perfect holiday movie no matter how you celebrate (except for festivus ) Really sweet. I especially liked the very beginning where they say if you are feeling low just go to the arrival gate at an airport and you will feel the love all around us.
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Posted 12/2/03 12:06 PM
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halloweenbride04
Proud Mommy!
Member since 8/03 2665 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/31/2004 2:30 PM
Wed. Location:
Miller Place Inn
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
In my opinion, society is getting way too carried away with the political correctness. A Christmas Tree is a Christmas Tree for various reasons, if you have one in your home call it what you want in YOUR own home but don't force this crap on everyone else. I hope I don't offend anyone but I feel the same way about this as I do about the fact that you can no longer sit "Indian" style, you have to teach your kids to sit "pretzel" style.....
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Posted 12/2/03 12:10 PM
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Xelindrya
Goodbye Sparky-love you
Member since 7/03 7862 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/23/2004 11:30 AM
Wed. Location:
Stewart Manor Ctry Club
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
Posted by Misty
Ok. I'm not flaming, but allow me to punch some holes here.
Who exactly gets nuts when a tree is left up after Christmas? I don't, no one I know does...no matter how "jewish" they are.
The menorah is left up for 8 days, and then some because maybe whomever has it up feels like it, just like a Christmas tree. Personally, my menorah goes up a few days before and comes down sometime after the end of the holiday. Usually when I remember to take it down. Each light is lit and a prayer is said each evening at sundown to portray and reflect what the Macabees went through and the miracle that the oil lasted for 8 straight days. It's a pretty accurate and necessary representation don't you agree? I'm not quite understanding what is going "in the face of the miracle" here? We aren't trying to recreate a miracle, just trying to pay homage.
Who gets nuts.. not the Jews, didn't mean to imply that I meant Joe Public.
Poke holes all you'd like. I find it an intellecutal stimulant.
"In the face"
Let see if I can clearly explain.
I come from a family with lots of ceremony, traditions, rites, rituals and sacred holidays that must (to us) be honored. A lot of them include dates (not in a calendar but in a sense of time). The Mourning for example depending on who it is can last the 3 days or the full year. For mine it was the full year. Where it was only 3 days, it is traditional to put it behind you. Appropriate time has been spent in true earnest reflection. To extend the symbolism on such a thing would be to mar or diminish it’s importance. It would in our family become an everyday common event. We take our stuff seriously, I guess. To each celebration is given it’s own time.
If I were Jewish, which again I’m not so I fully understand that I understand nothing. Hehe. But if I were, and if I understood the miracle and celebration correctly I’d honor my ancestors by removing the Menorah when it’s celebration was complete. Much like they, there should be no more light from those sacred pillars. I guess it is one of those… “It is today as it was then” idealistic points of view I have. Hence it’s in the face, for me in my interpretation to be left up longer. But I wouldn’t know.
That’s a terribly awkward way of trying to explain it, but I hope it makes sense.
Message edited 12/2/2003 12:12:21 PM.
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Posted 12/2/03 12:11 PM
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shelzyp
Beyond Obsession
Member since 1/03 7429 total posts
Wedding Date:
10/12/2003 5:30 PM
Wed. Location:
Villa Lombardi's
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Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....
also people with alzheimers's, and now memory imparied.
I can't believe it is no longer called indian style.
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Posted 12/2/03 12:16 PM
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